Answer 1

This is pretty interesting. I use JoyToKey to play Dustforce. When I changed my dash button's automatic shooting 30 time/s. My times nearly got cut in half. The only other time I've tried this was in the level Downhill, but since then it felt a little cheap. I guess that this really proves no matter how good you can mash that dash key, a macro will out perform every time.

Answer 2

"I guess that this really proves no matter how good you can mash that dash key, a macro will out perform every time."

It's only useful in specific cases, because as soon as you jump you will slow down. But in those cases you'll need a macro.

Usually dashing only brings you to your maximum speed, which is why dashing multiple times in a straight line won't get you any faster. But if you are already above your maximum speed, dashing will keep you above that speed as long as you dash.

I don't think this second use of dash was intended by developers as it seems everything was done to make dash spamming useless. An easy solution would be to enable holding the button to repeatedly dash, which would pretty much give everyone the same possibilities as a macro.

Answer 3

why would it not have been intended... that comment is just pure bull lol.
instead of trying to make the game easyer to master for everyone, just frown upon players who use macros/turbo like the rest of us, while still getting good times without it.

I feel like this is a puny attempt to make a point about people using macro's: people will always cheat, its pretty easy to ignore in a game like this, in fact I dont think there are any players that are currently getting number 1 times that use macro's, apart from a couple of any% times. The players that used to get number ones using macros seem to have stopped using them.

you can get pretty close to the results without using a macro by just practicing the timing, getting an option to hold to spam dash would just reduce the skill required to play this game significantly, which in a game like this is a bad thing in my opinion.

There are VERY limited maps where macros give you a significant advantage, the only ones I can think off from the top of my head being downhill and ancient gardens(any%)

Answer 4

i got 1st place :}
keeping momentum requires skill, not a button.

Answer 5

Tied your time :p
No macro as well.

Answer 6

Now I'm really curious. How did you guys do ? Mashing ? Timing ?

Answer 7

hellyeah Krank.
i timed it. if i mash i get around 5.0.

Answer 8

Timing. There's a specific rhythm to dashing that is pretty consistent.

Answer 9

I get the impression that spamming dash to maintain speed wasn't intended from a design perspective, but is an unexpected result of the programming (similar to wave dashing in SSB Melee).  If it was intended, I'm pretty sure Hitbox would've had the foresight to prevent the use of macros (being able to step outside the bounds of a game and gain an advantage within the game is a BIG game design no-no).

I think the feature itself turned out to add an interesting high level gameplay mechanic, so it shouldn't be removed.  Like Marksel said, you gotta be good to get the timing right without a macro.  They could change it so that if the dash key is hit an excessive number of times (such as when using a macro), then the player would slow down.

Answer 10

Sounds like a good idea.

Answer 11

I can't see dashing to maintain speed not being intended. There's just too many places that it can be used in the official levels to not be intended. For example, park is basically built for maintaining momentum by dashing.

Groundboosts on the other hand, are just so bizarre that they might be unintentional..

Answer 12

When i saw this thread i thought of the Wavedash debate immediately, lol...

and I agree with Krank

Answer 13

All of the advanced techniques I can think of (this use of dashing, ground boosts, spikewalks, etc.) were all intentional in some sense - we did not originally purposefully put them in, but we found them all out as we played the game during development, and intentionally left them in because we felt they all added to the depth of the game.

While using a macro for this kind of map does make it easier, it's by no means required.  It looks like Cleveland and Krankdud's top runs were done without macros. It's more of a timing thing than a mashing thing.  You don't have to hit dash every single frame - you just have to hit it again a certain time after the previous dash was executed, in order not to lose speed.  

Also, there aren't too many maps where this would make a huge difference.  I think it's the map designer's responsibility to ensure a map is designed in a way to not let this be a big issue.

Answer 14

bam. problem solved.
 i figured it wasnt necessarily intended but they did build the engine so things like this could exist.
same with wavedashing. they didnt think, wow dodging right next to the ground would be useful but they created the physics engine to allow depth like that.

Answer 15

Thanks for the clarification!  The main reason why I thought it was unintended was because of how much care was put into the animations; the run animations are too beautiful to just dash constantly and never see them! :)

Answer 16

I thought it was about mashing for sure. I'll try using timing more tonight as I get back from work. This might be a non-problem after all.

Still, it is defintely easier with macro, and not really verifiable from replay.

I kinda like SubparFiddle's idea :
>"They could change it so that if the dash key is hit an excessive number of times (such as when using a macro), then the player would slow down."

This idea reminds me of a Smash Bros Brawl mechanic :
You can press L to recover from being thrown to the ground, but if you press L too early (for instance if you mash the button) then you won't recover, even if you later press L at the right time.

More technical : ( http://www.ssbwiki.com/Tech )
>"To tech, the player must press the shield button 20 frames or fewer before hitting the ceiling, while in hitstun. 20 frames after each press is a 40 frame downtime window where a tech cannot be done, so mashing buttons reduces the player's likelihood of teching."

Then again, this is a relatively small community, and there's also way more ways to cheat like in Towelie's post below. Maybe all of this is to excessive as long as we can rely on honor.

Answer 17

has anyone ever heard of using Cheat Engine to slow down the game? I tried it once and got an insane time on the map: Crash. It also gives you really good boosts at the end of hills because you can time it perfectly, takes the fun out of it though.

Answer 18

However the auto key thingy i just used gave me best time. Probably because of the super fast dash downwards before the ramp.

Answer 19

did you TAS with Cheat Engine? cuz id like to see krank or And4h with it. id imagine it to be insanely good.

Answer 20

Well my runs looked like krank or And4h when I used it haha, btw what is TAS?

Answer 21

TAS stands for Tool Assisted Speed runs. Eg using a 3rd party program to help give u an advantage like save states and slowing down the game allowing you to a 100% perfect run.

Here's a video of a TAS speedrun of Super Mario Bros on NES.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYCOwxHa_sU

Answer 22

I suck at this ... can't get under 5 secs ... my timing is bs ...

Answer 23

my hold right strat is op on this map