Downhill dash macro

by Wiwiweb
created Aug 4, 2012
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4533 views | 1830 downloads

Rating
/ 9 votes

Difficulty
/ 6 votes

Tags
test macro dash

map notes
This map is a proof of concept.

I've seen in several top replays (such as #1 time on Ancient Garden) a way of keeping a very fast speed after a down hill.
The only way to do that is by continuously dashing. Every single frame where you aren't dashing will reduce your speed.
This is humanly impossible with just spamming the dash button. Which means that you NEED a dash macro if you want to have a good time on some levels.

Check the top replays of this test level to see.

I'd suggest the developers to add an option of holding the dash button to repeatedly dash, allowing everyone to use this.
edited Aug 4, 2012

23 comments

Marfinator
said Aug 4, 2012
This is pretty interesting. I use JoyToKey to play Dustforce. When I changed my dash button's automatic shooting 30 time/s. My times nearly got cut in half. The only other time I've tried this was in the level Downhill, but since then it felt a little cheap. I guess that this really proves no matter how good you can mash that dash key, a macro will out perform every time.
Wiwiweb
said Aug 4, 2012
"I guess that this really proves no matter how good you can mash that dash key, a macro will out perform every time."

It's only useful in specific cases, because as soon as you jump you will slow down. But in those cases you'll need a macro.

Usually dashing only brings you to your maximum speed, which is why dashing multiple times in a straight line won't get you any faster. But if you are already above your maximum speed, dashing will keep you above that speed as long as you dash.

I don't think this second use of dash was intended by developers as it seems everything was done to make dash spamming useless. An easy solution would be to enable holding the button to repeatedly dash, which would pretty much give everyone the same possibilities as a macro.
Marksel
said Aug 4, 2012
why would it not have been intended... that comment is just pure bull lol.
instead of trying to make the game easyer to master for everyone, just frown upon players who use macros/turbo like the rest of us, while still getting good times without it.

I feel like this is a puny attempt to make a point about people using macro's: people will always cheat, its pretty easy to ignore in a game like this, in fact I dont think there are any players that are currently getting number 1 times that use macro's, apart from a couple of any% times. The players that used to get number ones using macros seem to have stopped using them.

you can get pretty close to the results without using a macro by just practicing the timing, getting an option to hold to spam dash would just reduce the skill required to play this game significantly, which in a game like this is a bad thing in my opinion.

There are VERY limited maps where macros give you a significant advantage, the only ones I can think off from the top of my head being downhill and ancient gardens(any%)
C. Cleveland
said Aug 4, 2012
i got 1st place :}
keeping momentum requires skill, not a button.
edited Aug 4, 2012
Krankdud
said Aug 4, 2012
Tied your time :p
No macro as well.
Wiwiweb
said Aug 5, 2012
Now I'm really curious. How did you guys do ? Mashing ? Timing ?
C. Cleveland
said Aug 5, 2012
hellyeah Krank.
i timed it. if i mash i get around 5.0.
Krankdud
said Aug 5, 2012
Timing. There's a specific rhythm to dashing that is pretty consistent.
SubparFiddle
said Aug 4, 2012
I get the impression that spamming dash to maintain speed wasn't intended from a design perspective, but is an unexpected result of the programming (similar to wave dashing in SSB Melee).  If it was intended, I'm pretty sure Hitbox would've had the foresight to prevent the use of macros (being able to step outside the bounds of a game and gain an advantage within the game is a BIG game design no-no).

I think the feature itself turned out to add an interesting high level gameplay mechanic, so it shouldn't be removed.  Like Marksel said, you gotta be good to get the timing right without a macro.  They could change it so that if the dash key is hit an excessive number of times (such as when using a macro), then the player would slow down.
Wiwiweb
said Aug 4, 2012
Sounds like a good idea.
Krankdud
said Aug 4, 2012
I can't see dashing to maintain speed not being intended. There's just too many places that it can be used in the official levels to not be intended. For example, park is basically built for maintaining momentum by dashing.

Groundboosts on the other hand, are just so bizarre that they might be unintentional..
ToniShinobi
said Aug 4, 2012
When i saw this thread i thought of the Wavedash debate immediately, lol...

and I agree with Krank
lifeformed
said Aug 5, 2012
All of the advanced techniques I can think of (this use of dashing, ground boosts, spikewalks, etc.) were all intentional in some sense - we did not originally purposefully put them in, but we found them all out as we played the game during development, and intentionally left them in because we felt they all added to the depth of the game.

While using a macro for this kind of map does make it easier, it's by no means required.  It looks like Cleveland and Krankdud's top runs were done without macros. It's more of a timing thing than a mashing thing.  You don't have to hit dash every single frame - you just have to hit it again a certain time after the previous dash was executed, in order not to lose speed.  

Also, there aren't too many maps where this would make a huge difference.  I think it's the map designer's responsibility to ensure a map is designed in a way to not let this be a big issue.
C. Cleveland
said Aug 5, 2012
bam. problem solved.
 i figured it wasnt necessarily intended but they did build the engine so things like this could exist.
same with wavedashing. they didnt think, wow dodging right next to the ground would be useful but they created the physics engine to allow depth like that.
SubparFiddle
said Aug 5, 2012
Thanks for the clarification!  The main reason why I thought it was unintended was because of how much care was put into the animations; the run animations are too beautiful to just dash constantly and never see them! :)
Wiwiweb
said Aug 5, 2012
I thought it was about mashing for sure. I'll try using timing more tonight as I get back from work. This might be a non-problem after all.

Still, it is defintely easier with macro, and not really verifiable from replay.

I kinda like SubparFiddle's idea :
>"They could change it so that if the dash key is hit an excessive number of times (such as when using a macro), then the player would slow down."

This idea reminds me of a Smash Bros Brawl mechanic :
You can press L to recover from being thrown to the ground, but if you press L too early (for instance if you mash the button) then you won't recover, even if you later press L at the right time.

More technical : ( http://www.ssbwiki.com/Tech )
>"To tech, the player must press the shield button 20 frames or fewer before hitting the ceiling, while in hitstun. 20 frames after each press is a 40 frame downtime window where a tech cannot be done, so mashing buttons reduces the player's likelihood of teching."

Then again, this is a relatively small community, and there's also way more ways to cheat like in Towelie's post below. Maybe all of this is to excessive as long as we can rely on honor.
edited Aug 6, 2012
Probably not Towelie
said Aug 5, 2012
has anyone ever heard of using Cheat Engine to slow down the game? I tried it once and got an insane time on the map: Crash. It also gives you really good boosts at the end of hills because you can time it perfectly, takes the fun out of it though.
Probably not Towelie
said Aug 5, 2012
However the auto key thingy i just used gave me best time. Probably because of the super fast dash downwards before the ramp.
C. Cleveland
said Aug 6, 2012
did you TAS with Cheat Engine? cuz id like to see krank or And4h with it. id imagine it to be insanely good.
Probably not Towelie
said Aug 6, 2012
Well my runs looked like krank or And4h when I used it haha, btw what is TAS?
Hoshikudaki
said Aug 13, 2012
TAS stands for Tool Assisted Speed runs. Eg using a 3rd party program to help give u an advantage like save states and slowing down the game allowing you to a 100% perfect run.

Here's a video of a TAS speedrun of Super Mario Bros on NES.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYCOwxHa_sU
edited Aug 13, 2012
Jindrael
said Aug 5, 2012
I suck at this ... can't get under 5 secs ... my timing is bs ...
NoobSlayer
said Aug 9, 2012
my hold right strat is op on this map

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