by czyys
created Sep 11, 2016
449 views | 3227 downloads

/ 10 votes

/ 4 votes

map notes
Here's my first custom map.
Designed with Dustman in mind.
S completion is meant for first-time Dustforce players. Any% is a little bit more tricky.

In shortest way possible, some time ago when I first started Dustforce I played for 2 hours, got frustrated because I didn't know how to go fast and quit. Eventually I picked it up again and figured things out.
Default tutorials teach player only the very basics and in my opinion that isn't enough.
It's important to ensure a new player will learn everything the tutorial has to offer before moving onwards, that's why I think using spikes is necessary to block the player from progressing until they learn the thing.
Deaths in tutorial may be off-putting, but Dustforce has very quick respawn system, so it's faster this way, than to make the player go back "by foot" to try the thing again. The risk is player quitting the game because they couldn't pass its tutorial. Breaking it into 3 parts and giving them more space is a good start to fixing that problem.
Again, I quit because the game didn't teach me enough to have fun, not because it was too hard.
And, in my opinion, watching replays isn't a good way to learn game's mechanics.

Anyway, here's my take on a one-level tutorial. Any% route was bulit when the SS route was done, so it might look awkward at some places. And sorry if there's any broken english.
edited Sep 11, 2016


said Sep 11, 2016
Were this the tutorial, I would've quit the game because it's a stupid lot to take in early on when you're not even used to the physics, and has a few things that makes SS a bitch, in a game where you quickly learn that only SS counts for anything.

In my opinion you made 2 mistakes when you started, that aren't exactly the games fault.  

1.  You assumed the tutorial was supposed to teach you all the games mechanics.  It isn't.  The game itself is supposed to teach you everything past the basics.  Most of this game is a glorified tutorial.  "Eventually I picked it up again and figured things out", as you would, because that is the path the game is designed to follow.  This tutorial is also not exhaustive, and therefore you'd still fall back on the levels to teach you mechanics.

2.  You expected to immediately be able to get good times in a game you didn't know how to play.  That isn't going to happen, especially with this games complex movement mechanics.  Your tutorial would've done nothing more to help you know how to "go fast" in the first 2 hours.  

All things considered though, this level isn't a bad level, and was for the most part enjoyable.  I just don't quite agree with it as a superior alternative to the tutorials.  Nor do I think it would've really fixed the issue you're complaining about.
edited Sep 11, 2016
said Sep 11, 2016
Ideally it would be split over 3 parts, like in game, where player can get accustomed to physics and have feeling of accomplishment when done with each part, I'm just not that invested to make 3 maps. So it shouldn't be seen as a complete replacement for default tutorials.

I picked up Dustforce again only after I quit, that's certainly not the designed path. I only assumed that learning things in a tutorial, and not from replays, is a natural thing and this tutorial still covers only basics, there's much to learn later in levels, so the game keeps being glorified tutorial.

With this tutorial I would've known how to properly start Tunnels or how to get dust faster from those half-circle parts that appear as early as in Shaded Grove.
I didn't expect to immediately be able to get good times, I just didn't know how players execute these parts, and the game did very little to help me.

But thanks for playing the map and for your feedback.
said Sep 11, 2016
beginner tutorial has half circles near the end and literally all of advanced is about boosting, both of those things you mentioned are covered in the stock tutorials lol

either way, this game doesnt teach you everything or do any hand holding because it simply cant.  the game was absolutely designed with this in mind, and the fun of the game is learning how clear sections using the basic mechanics the tutorials give you + what you have learned by playing.  if there was a text box telling me how to do every small section of the early levels id be turned off the game very quickly.

this admittedly makes the game niche but from watching tons of people stream the game for one day and never play again its often because they dont even bother reading what the few notes the game gives you say.  i doubt giving them 3x as much information would do much better, lol.  what personally pushed me to play the game was self-improvement; figuring how to do sections (and eventually, how to do these sections quickly) which has to be done all on your own.  it feels very rewarding to me and continues to keep me pushing the game almost 3000 hours later.
said Sep 11, 2016
Yes, but player is never told how to tackle these half circles, and they're much harder to figure out by yourself than wall-running which does have a dedicated message box and I'd say they're both basic mechanics.
And for boosting there's no guarantee the player will get how to do it before completing
the tutorial.
"this game doesnt teach you everything (...).  the game was absolutely designed with this in mind, and the fun of the game is learning how clear sections using the basic mechanics the tutorials give you + what you have learned by playing.  if there was a text box telling me how to do every small section of the early levels id be turned off the game very quickly." I agree and my tutorial doesn't violate any of this, the difference is just in what you and I consider a mechanic fitting for the tutorial.
If people you speak about played this tutorial, they would have to learn how to complete each section, and there's no difference in information being given..
said Sep 11, 2016
Fun map, definitely too difficult to be a tutorial though. It's not like anyone who needs a tutorial looks at custom maps any time soon, so I guess it's fine? :P
said Sep 11, 2016
Thanks. What parts do you think are that much difficult? I personally don't think anything here is much more difficult than what's in the standard Advanced (maybe with an exception of that one ceiling to ceiling jump with spikes in the middle, but they were necessary so the player won't cheese this part). The spikes are only to block the player from unfortunate progress, they don't really make any move harder to pull off.
And yeah, this map was pretty much just an exercise for me, I don't expect any noobie to play it, that's why I put some work into any%.
said Sep 11, 2016
im learnding
said Sep 11, 2016
Better than stock tutorials, but probably too hard for new players. Rip original tutorial :(
said Sep 12, 2016
Thanks. From the replays I've seen maybe making the drop near the end shorter, so the player can see the spikes at the bottom would be a good change, but other that that I can't think of anything else to make it easier yet to keep its purpose. Other than spliting it into parts and filling them with some easy platforming following this design philosophy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBmIkEvEBtA
edited Sep 12, 2016
said Sep 11, 2016
I would say it works great as a tutorial. Would not say it is too difficult but maybe it's my time playing this game that is talking.

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